Utopia or Untopia
Bluff, Double-Bluff

Compiled by Lucela


A Drift Too Far
Key Issues
Hicktown Untopia
Untopia, Hell-on-Earth
Bluff, Double-Bluff
Cui Bono?

A Drift too Far

These are my notes after finishing 'the Book' about Kelly. It may not reach you or convince you of anything but it helps me see the Wood for the Trees, and may sharpen the focus on some dappled area. There are things I still prefer not to write as they are too personal for some of the players though belonging here with the main thread. I have not looked back over earlier writings, and this stands or falls as it does.

What You See Is What You Get

Readers with no interest in psychism or the occult may discredit this, but in her home Kelly had items given her which affected her deeply. When she plucked up courage and put them in a shed, they lost their impact. Humans are strange creatures who can become sensitised to things, or others can do it as means to control them. There was an issue over rings with a red stone that cult members wore to events. We'll leave the occult aspect there, but what was the circle of dead crows left in Kelly's backyard meant to achieve?

Kelly sought counselling from Trixie who claimed to be trustworthy with strong boundaries, but it was like speaking with forked tongue. She played a game of snatch-away that she always won. Trixie claimed to be helping Kelly to reduce cultic triggers while denying that cults exist. I grew concerned when Kelly's hour appointments became 8-hour absences from home. I recalled hearing how Trixie conditioned Kelly to race out of the house on cue. That seemed to be how the cult got people to leave their homes, or they blew smoke through the letterbox so they might think there was a fire. Despite her new-agey mush about loving oneself, parts of Trixie seemed to have cult allegiance. Trixie's predecessor Marta, Kelly had said, was the cult. There were two main aspects to this. One was ritualistic activity close to a full moon or main festival date, and involving all the trappings. The other was when Marta brought men to Kelly to rape her. Sometimes Kelly remembered parts, like the day she came to consciousness battered and bruised, lying in the snow with her hands bound. Then, either mercifully or by design, she forgot.

Coincident with Kelly's avoidance of therapy appointments, was harassment involving a truck and loud noise at Kelly's home. She did not seem the same after that and it was like the after-effects of ECT. Either that or gangstalking. She used to remember minute details about me over the years, but now very little. I am not saying I want you to believe, but to wonder if it happened, why, how many were involved as victims, and how many as organisers. Different countries and peoples have different ways, and one cannot apply standards or values across the board without looking at those. But what are we looking at here? If they want Kelly dead, go for it, then she can't cause more problems for them. If too many of their victims get killed or just give up on life, someone might ask questions. Anyway, who would service the sadistic clients then?

Kelly was scared of men now, although had a reasonable life with her ex-husband for some years. He was not of the cult but his major bills were paid, I believe for informing on Kelly's nights looking after the children, as opposed to cult or rape nights when she would be alone and accessible. How many places is this sort of thing happening, in so-called civilised societies with a sophisticated legal system, aided and abetted by so-called caring professionals? I tried all through with Kelly to look at possibilities and for what I may have missed. Latterly I was seeing how plausible and manipulative she could be, even though she was less mentally acute. It seemed easier for her function as a virtual recluse. How did Kelly and others like her survive such a lifestyle? Did she choose some of it? Who did? What is it? Why is it? Why is its abusive nature not recognised or stopped? Does someone stop the stopping? Should someone stop that!

therapy police

I won't get into the satanic ritual abuse reasoning of some therapists. Yes, I believe it happens. Yes, I thought satanism and a relevant belief system were involved here, along with shooting of porn films, prostitution, blackmail, drug dealing, or organised crime one way or another. Yes, it happens elsewhere. Let's try to see things for what they are, not what they're not. See when they really are something, not when they aren't. If we make mistakes in our perception or reasoning, look at those too because they can be important or add perspective. Too often researchers discount something on a spurious argument, precluding greater understanding.


Key Issues

I don't want to turn this into a theological debate either - what difference does any of that make here? The point at issue is to see if others can see what I do, hear what I hear, and work on what can be done. There must be people, it doesn't need many, who know how some of this works. We put it together properly and make a sum of the parts. If anyone recognises something of this in their own therapy or life, or of someone they know, start wondering and get ready to bail. Save sanity, save life, save integrity. SOS means save our souls!

Another dichotomy is over the possibility, or not, of recovered memory. To what extent may some people dissociate naturally, or is it generally through severe trauma? Only through severe trauma? Does trauma cause differences in people's brains, or was there perhaps a prior condition or a sensitivity interacting with something we can't explain? If something applies to some people, can and should it be applied to all? If something is relevant to most people, i.e. over half, does it always apply to you, to me, to x-y-z? Clearly not. Would severe trauma probably involve abuse or satanism? How much should we assume?

How much can happen through bad therapy alone, or via the influence of people whom we believe or raise on a pedestal? We have to get over a one-size-fits-all (or-none) theorising. Some people can come to believe a scenario fits them wholesale, or believe they are victims of more than they need to, blaming close family as the most likely cause. I don't expect people who have been abused to think 'I was wrong to think those things happened'. They know they did. The other side of the coin is too much denial about abuse, as though being able to discount one case necessarily disproves the lot, everywhere, for ever.

When some people are prescribed drugs for one situation, how may that affect their ability to see the Wood for the Trees, or to distinguish what really happened from the effects of medication? How often are all of us playing a role to suit a specific situation, as social psychologists explain how we accomplish with ease? Do we see what we believe, or believe what we see? Do we remember accurately even what we did see?


circus animals

We can all get hoodwinked
We all know when we go to a magic show that there will be misdirection and trickery

Hicktown Untopia

Kelly claimed there were other local women in a similar situation to hers, conditioned to feel worthless or helpless, forced to comply with needs of a larger or powerful group, mediated by certain therapists. When things got too much for some of the women, they committed suicide in isolated places. Kelly and I wanted to help women like this in Hicktown or anywhere with its problems. Some places were ideal for cult gatherings and the high drama which seemed to be a part of it all, as the moon rose over the well-stocked Woods, an earthwork, a warehouse, a cave, an isolated church, or somewhere underground. Someone's idea of Utopia perhaps, though not for those low down the pecking order, or in demand for sexual services. A few dames ran with the men, arranging for people like Kelly to be virtual whores with little awareness plus the no-rights aspect. How does the song go? 'It's the same the whole world over, it's the poor that gets the blame ...'

The Hicktown set-up accommodated those who had and who took, from those who had not; who brutalised those who could not fight or do anything back. The demoralisation and fear were necessary for this. Hence the confusional conditioning process, and the difficulty of trying to straighten any of it out, exacerbated by the double-bluff of Now you see it, Now we deny it. We can all make mistakes or do deceitful things. Sadly, what was happening here was basically an extension of 'normal people's normal behaviour'.

Untopia, Hell-on-Earth

For some years I researched cults of the more usual kind, and learned what I could about groups in general. They can seem to have extra-normal qualities. I wondered if cults were basically to fulfill some person/s idea of utopia, a better way of living, closer to some ideal, more of an intentional community than a cult. As with anything, one person's group or belief can be a virtual poison or hell for others. My shelves groan with books on beliefs, or different ways of thinking, living and being. Particularly useful were philosophy books pertaining to 'the Self' or alternate/successive selves, how emotions can affect one's beliefs, and how we behave situationally or temporarily. I sat through hours of varied lectures, some relevant, some not really, some weird, one unpleasant. Sometimes I made a fool of myself with my mind raring to race round a different track without insider knowledge. I am grateful to those who bore with my efforts and idiosyncrasies, and to those who helped with websites.

There comes a time when it seems better to examine what lies ahead rather than search far corners of the globe. Coming across Kelly seemed meant to happen, but I would not allow the idea to keep my nose to the same grindstone she faced, it seemed eternally. I thought she had something to do with some of it, but mainly that others were coercing her and not letting her fly free. If we don't look at the phenomenon, whatever it is, we may not change things.

My somewhat sceptical view became that Kelly was used to use me, to test which way the wind was blowing in the outside world, and waste my time as it gave them a feeling of power. The only problem I have with that is, as far as I know, Marta did not know the extent of Kelly's disclosures to me for the first 2 years. Trixie never did know. Perhaps parts of Kelly belonged to the cult and these things were happening via those plus the conditioning. In some cultures too, people are deemed to belong to their family with a stronger meaning or emphasis than elsewhere. Perhaps her heightened emotions were not some personal quirk, but a method whereby her suffering could be 'harvested' with others, perhaps similar to a general cult-design aiming for crowd-power or control. Her emotional state could have been exacerbated by medication and/or trauma, see Note inset below.

Note - A page has been added about cults or abusive experience, aftermath and recovery:
Zonk Effects of Abuse: Post-Cult Trauma.. Unsuitable Medication.. Un-therapeutic/Bad Therapy

Some therapists work with cult-loyal alters as the most appropriate way to help the person to 'get away'. I have known other people who took extreme measures, hiding themselves away so the cult could not access them. Getting away is possible but hard, and may take more than one attempt. Knowing some of the dynamics, and also that it is possible, can make all the difference. With Kelly's system, communicating with such alters was a road to nowhere. I did what I usually do, i.e. strengthen the functioning aspects. Meanwhile someone else was working at a hypnotic level, putting in even more time and effort strengthening cult-loyals, messing up the rest, and playing them off against each other. The result was like an atrociously functioning committee. When one of those goes West it takes an earthquake to change things.


Bluff, Double-Bluff

Whoever is behind all of this is likely to be playing a double-game, a double-blind, a double-bluff. So?

We need to look deeper at why this has become such a controversy, seemingly getting nowhere

Why we often seem to be missing the point

Small wonder that we do - It is how it was intended to be

If you can confuse someone over whether they got raped, what else might you manage to persuade them of?

Kelly was good at making connections between things, unless she received instructions not to, which pretty well cooked the books for her

Nolly the interpreter wrote that, if I found it confusing, I should think how it was for them: I tried to

If Hicktown can be thought of as a microcosm, is what happens there a kind of test, to see how much is noticed, what they get away with, gradually eroding anyone's ability to do anything? It's like saying 'Here are human rights, but you can't have this one, or that, or ... or ... until the human-plus-rights concept implodes. It resonates with parents haranging a small child that if they don't behave they won't get a toy. So the child cries, and the threat becomes 'If you cry you won't get a toy'. So the child screams. Logical behaviour for the child, though I cannot speak for the parents. It can make for greater dependency on the parents, perhaps that's it.

If you can confuse everyone over whether cults exist or can have power, or particularly what some satanic or other belief systems might involve, the World is then your oyster. Many years ago, like other people, I thought awareness of mental health issues would mean a more understanding society, including in the workplace. Some organisations are working hard for this now.

It is but a few steps from a small double-bind, to the greatly larger ones wherein we can all get hoodwinked. We all know when we go to a magic show that there will be misdirection and trickery. Watch out for it in your own life, please.

Cui bono?


Who benefits?

We are back looking at theories of social control, see A Singular Mean-ing

performing seal

IF YOU want to explore in this field, we hope this gives you a few areas of enquiry. Please take care, whether in this field or any other. Enquiring may be 'not worth the candle' either!

On the following page Zonk Effects, are some notes on cults more generally and how they can include crimes - not just moral ones. Many people both inside and outside cults are badly damaged and criminally so. People tend not to understand linked effects unless they or someone close has been affected. Understanding dynamics does not generally extend to the Kelly's of this world and to that type of cult, but to my mind they are part of a similar package. I am ashamed at easily getting mad at Kelly, when she tried her best to survive and make sense of a seriously screwed pack of cards.

hand of cards

CONTINUE to Post-Cult Trauma.. Unsuitable Medication.. Un-therapeutic/Bad Therapy

Note from the authors of this site -
We will neither confirm nor deny any speculation or comments regarding the whereabouts of this Hicktown, or possible identities of anyone thought to be involved in activities mentioned in these pages. Any messages on messageboards or other people's websites purporting to be from us, are not. What is Here is What You Get.

To Help Others

If you would like to do something to help others, because of what you have read in these pages, Kelly's wish was that any monies should go to charities or organisations helping children generally, or people who have been abused. Thank you.

Quotation from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle 'The Disappearance of Lady Frances Carfax'

'I refuse to be rewarded for fostering a tragedy'

Thank you for reading








IF YOU ARE IN TROUBLE: Cults and Psychic Self-Defence links

ESOTERIC PSYCHOLOGY, More Than Meets the Eye,
Memories Good or Bad, Theories & Links


MIND what you SAY on the WEB

Web Of Deceit
Break Into It Anywhere
Who Would Do Such a Thing?
Special Occasions
Did You Call The Cops? All Over Now?
Christmas Wishes
New Year Follies
The More It Changes
New Deal On The Table
Emails From Nolly
Return of a Heroine
Conspiracy City or Hicktown HighJinx?
Fruitloop Therapy
What Drives Cultic Behaviour?
Price of Getting Connected; Rationale
Who Is This?
Why Do Such Things?
How Did That Deal Go?
Bleak Times
Full Circle
End Times Prophecy
Themes & Underlay
More Than Dreamt of...
Dissociated Complexes or Alter Personalities
Psychic Powers Not Worth the Candle; The Web
Therapy for the Children; Reasons for This Scenario
Time Will Tell; More Weirdness
Deals Within Wheels
Musings And Meditations
Out Of The Woods?
A Singular Thread
Are You the Therapy Police?
Hanging by a Thread
Most Singular Evil
Amping or Ramping Up; That Ol' Hicktown Fruitloop
Shiftwork at Switching Hour; Fake or Flake
Where Do I Go for Information or Help?
Cult Connections; The Mind as a Garden
Return Of A Friend
Proprietary Rights
Rights And Wrongs
Astonishing 'Therapy'
Undermining the Underminers
Anyone for Chess? A Different Path?
Weird Wednesday; A Dangle to Ponder
Delusion?; Joining the Circus
How Some of it is Achieved
Cult or Klan? Web of Deception
Imagery, Support, Friend-in-Court
HINDSIGHT: Boggle Up or Boggle Down
Ludicrass; Fantasms; Jingles & Jamborees
Tell Us Why! The Masked Magician
MEASURES & Countermeasures
Information on Cults &
Psychic Self-Defence; Links for Help
That's Some Big Wheel
More Yarn-Spinning

MORE Q's than A's
That ol' Hicktown Agin
Don't Sweep it under the Carpet

UTOPIA or Untopia
Key Issues & Summary; Therapy Police
Hicktown Untopia/ Hell-on-Earth
ZONK Effects of Abusive Experience
Post-Cult Trauma, Unsuitable Medication,
Un-therapeutic/Bad Therapy, Children
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What You See Is What You Get

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