Ritual Abuse, Therapy, Dissociation/DID

Hindsight -
Tell Us Why!

Compiled by Lucela

What You See Is What You Get

If you arrived from another website and want to read from the beginning click on WYSYIWYG


If Only
Boggle Up or Boggle Down
Game Ludicrass
Fantasies and Fantasmagoria
Jingles and Jamborees
Factor This
Tell Us Why!
Send for Bodie and Doyle

If Only

Many thoughts come to mind. Should I probably have done this, but definitely not that? Or do we judge ourselves by outcomes, as if the end justifies the means and it all turns out for the best? Should we look back with 'If only'?

Would I have got into this if I were not so curious, or if I knew how unreasonable Kelly could be about my commitment? Probably not. What kept me there was that Kelly and others like her had no chance of seeing or freeing themselves. That was because other people performed antics to prevent them doing so, worthy of the best or the worst circus. In this case it was 2 therapists. How could I not be involved? It was also because people who did believe were not believed themselves, and that others did not believe with a huge full-stop.

By a quirk of fate I was away a couple of days. Ironically Kelly now put together that she was involved with a twisting therapist Trixie, having already been through this with Marta, whom I'd crossed swords with in weird emails. Now Kelly said 'Either Trixie is playing a game with me, or you are. Like with Marta, it is her and not you. Marta is the main one, Trixie is the side-digger. You made me see that with the picture.' (I'd sent Kelly a picture of a group in another context, though could not see the connection.) She now realised the cult were active in her life again, where she'd made excuses for the bruises and pain, occasionally asking 'How long have I been getting hurt again?' or being scared of people at the door.

I had wondered if Kelly was playing out games with me through her past experiences, and her histrionic and dissociative make-up. But I had been involved overall for 9 years. I knew Trixie worked with Marta before where she had dealings with parts of Kelly's psyche, particularly Daisy the 5-year old protective alter (except when acting the opposite), and teenager Casey who was crucial. She is not mentioned much in 'the Book' as it would be too personal for parties involved.

Kelly was not the host-person, having come along when Caitlin could not cope, and they managed things together since university. Caitlin was gentle and sensitive and disappeared for long periods. Kelly used to be forthright but was now cowed. Other alters helped with chores and children. Seeing how I supported Kelly others wanted the same, which was too time-consuming as each wanted to get to know me and bickered over detail. I wondered whether some well-meaning supporters and therapists got tangled in an area where one is 'the expert' on a DID system. I trained in behavioural and psychodynamic work, and believe social conditions are often paramount in people's problems. Certainly looking at them can be useful.

Later I trained in hypnotherapy and met some of the best in the field, and others I would not wish on an enemy. Be careful who gets into your psyche, because your needs can become a road to hell, paved by other people's intentions. This applies to people you mix with in your personal or work environment. Just know where you are with yourself.

Whenever I tried to set a boundary with Kelly hoping that the one baseline could generalise, things went haywire. Boundaries are the antithesis of what some bad partners, cults, conmen or conwomen require, including bad therapists - in this case with cult allegiance. The sad thing was that they could have helped Kelly. Instead she was undermined, and many things she tried boomeranged back. The wonder was that Kelly had a flair for intervening in neighbourhood disputes and children's spats, knowing how far things should go and how to remedy them.

What clued me in with doubts about Trixie was her repeated reference to boundaries. How did Kelly know about Trixie's personal life, hopes and fears, yet any issues Kelly raised or wanted help with were out of bounds? Trixie said she would not reply to emails as it was a boundary. She did though when things got out of hand, which is natural. Her words were chosen to give one meaning if it became public, while Kelly picked up another. There were times when I said something in good faith, and Kelly reacted as if it were destructive.

I had to weigh up whether Kelly would want me to help others in her predicament, against further punishments getting meted out to her. In our early days of contact, it seemed life-and-death in her immediate future via threats, and surely no-one could survive this for another week, month, or year?

The idea was to make it impossible for victims to be separate from the cult. They were bonded as though some lien formed a one-way track to the cult. If Kelly got away it could mean punishment. This was part of the lien, the bondage, making it stick like glue. It could also be what kept people like Kelly alive and struggling as if having super-human qualities. Perhaps it was like everlasting life in a hell-on-earth. I believe it is important for people to realise things for themselves, not have them implanted via a different, even well-meaning agenda. It could be that the price was too high for Kelly. Why should someone else set the price for her?

I went online before and after Kelly's appointments with Trixie, realising that she went missing for a substantial period of time. The idea was to minimise her vulnerability. Although Kelly was sure she had quit therapy, she still attended appointments, being vague over going and most of what occurred. I began to stress that she should be aware for some of the time, or else it was inappropriate for Trixie to see her. Trixie was courting young Daisy as the easiest inroad. I did not know if the sweets given were drugged. Trixie called at the house after a missed appointment, and Daisy let her in. Kelly had an agreement that Trixie should not even drive by the house, because of how Marta had been.

When Kelly said Trixie phoned with another appointment, she did not mention the late night visit. I thought she knew of it at some level, and had left things to Daisy. I mentioned it to Kelly, provoking a reaction of horror. She said we had to sort it out now before my days away, as she would never go back there. I asked if she would want me to tell her of anything like this again, and she said yes.

I emailed Kelly a broad outline of some of the points, being careful over what I knew through our being online, or what I wondered or believed. Kelly's usual way of dealing with threatening events was to think of them as a dream, for a while anyway. How could she do that with my summary now in front of her?

I was wondering if Kelly had been to see Trixie again and was somehow complicit in something. She was reluctant to communicate and was sending me personal questions. I went online after being away and emailed that I was back, but there was nothing for a couple of hours. Thinking Kelly might have missed my message, I repeated that I was back. 'I am here' she replied. 'Waiting for you to answer my questions.' I did not know if she'd been there all that while. We were both tired and fixed for the following day rather than get out of kilter.

Boggle Up or Boggle Down

Boggle threshold: Term coined by parapsychologist Renée Haynes to indicate the level at which the mind 'boggles' or is thwarted by the degree of improbability of a phenomenon. It is similar to other measures of the strangeness level of a phenomenon expressed by others.

Improbability is in the eye of the beholder. I had thought around various issues, wondering where we might have gone wrong or could perhaps view things differently. This was a time I nearly blew things and was lucky not to get the chance. 'You're confusing me with all these questions' Kelly complained. But we established that Kelly was not always clingy towards me, and when she wanted assurances there could be other factors involved.

In the same breath as saying she would no longer see Trixie as a therapist, Kelly mentioned getting hurt again by the cult. She was adamant however that Trixie was nothing to do with the cult, even though equating her with Marta, who was. This became a 'new reality' for the time being, and it would not be good for me to press for things that I wondered or thought I knew more about.

Later Kelly emailed that I had not understood something correctly. Something had been simmering away unknown to me, and was crucial to why she would not see Trixie. This too was her reality, adding to her previous doubts over Trixie as a viable form of help for her. Kelly had been laying down challenges to Trixie which would keep Kelly on track better than anything I could say or do. I always thought she could do this but it was almost too late in coming.

It is important for people to have a sounding board for things that happen, or just their thoughts and fears. Although I did not know a lot of what happened to Kelly, she knew I was there even when we did not always agree. There were times when she appeared to have been drugged and had little recollection. Hypnosis was used to keep her confused and to play on things in her mind. During the case of a girl kept captive in someone's torture shed, she was heavily drugged to forget. Later her memories began to surface, in an environment where it was safe and conducive for her. She was able to work it out for herself at her own time and pace. No-one told her what had happened. No-one then knew, but things were subsequently confirmed.

We may wish we could speed up the process, or get it moving how we think is best, but that is not the way.

Game Ludicrass

fantasy board game

The cult needed cult fodder, they wanted women, and they needed to have control over them. They could not allow anything to be realised, or get put together and acted on. Hence the manipulation of alter personalities and altered states of consciousness. They wanted people regarded as flaky or mentally ill, so that no-one would believe them. If psych methods did not work there was backup, like the memory-loss machine in the truck parked outside. This is what I term clean-up crew rather than cult-night roundings by Transport, though they could be the same. Laura, mentioned in Addendum told me of a sound-and-light machine affecting her consciousness, as others too have described.

There are more physical methods still, appearing just recently in CSI on mainstream television. Now we all know it's not just down to conspiracy nuts or double-dealers in Spooksville. I still could not understand why perpetrators used cumbersome psych methods like 3-hour therapy and fear induction, when something else would do the job just like that, to quote Tommy Cooper. Perhaps they had to pay for stuff, or they needed permission to use it, or had to report back on the efficacy for some situational or longitudinal study.

I think Kelly's problems arose because she wanted permanent guarantees and assurances. Marta and the cult offered those, while at other times making Kelly's life sheer hell. Maybe that's where the concept of 'satanism' comes in, with its high devil drama and apparent demons. Trixie's soft-soap approach to 'solving all problems' was what Kelly/Caitlin wanted to hear. It is difficult sometimes to sort out who has rights or who made a contract. Although I appreciated the role that Daisy and others played, I was not going down the road of putting their needs first. Someone else was twisting those. Getting bent out-of-shape is not descriptive enough. Maybe those 'with rank' got their ideas of dissociation from La Femme Nikita, and fancied factoring those 'without rank' into a tool incapable of knowing what they did to order. No-one could be held to blame, which is how things can often seem with DID.

I wondered if there was a kind of operational spreadsheet: This is an A4 so proceed accordingly, or it's C2 or XYZ. Anyone who has uploaded webpages to the wrong directory, or looked for something in the wrong file knows that things don't show up there. Kelly's psyche was like an experience or a mood being placed in one part or folder, unlikely to reach others unless there was some link, or meltdown.

For the perpetrators it must be the high drama, the fun of the game, thrill of the chase, the supremacy, or a need to keep experimenting in societal control on someone else's whim or instruction. They want to demonstrate something, while having us argue that things can't happen that way so they haven't, or they haven't happened that way so they can't, or something. Someone higher up the chain yanks their chains via threats and inducements, sticks and carrots, divide and conquer, hearts and minds, body and soul. Isn't that how it's done? We should all watch re-runs of The Professionals, then we'd know.

Fantasies and Fantasmagoria

Kelly and others like her can hardly be expected to see a lot of what goes on around them. If they do realise, they are labelled crazy and 'treated' accordingly, as in how they are regarded, or all sorts of theories get bandied about over them. Ian Hacking has written about people getting caught in a vector when expert views clash, which actually creates stresses. Worth a look. After all, we are labelling people here, and what can they do about it?

We have a tendency to alienate those who are weaker or different, as if something about them is threatening. Other people's theories, dreams and fantasmagoria get boring. I wanted to close on a positive note where Kelly made realisations about her therapist Trixie, who at best was inadequate, and at worst confusing to the point where it became evil, whether or not there was direct cult involvement.

Trixie kept calling Kelly mentally sick. Kelly or host Caitlin went to see her for help with a couple of fairly ordinary problems. Now Kelly was trying to break free from the therapy that allowed young alter Daisy to play for hours, while encouraging her desire for a momi. How sick can you be to do that to anyone? I encouraged the coping parts of Kelly as she struggled to come to terms with her life.

There did seem a convincing link between Trixie and the cult, when Kelly skipped appointments and punishment followed with a vehicle parked outside, people at the door, torn clothing, cuts and bruises, loud noises and ensuing shock, with Kelly having little recollection. Nowhere was this more evident than the night Kelly's emails jammed, possibly from just outside her home, and I sent scathing comments to whoever might be eavesdropping. Four hours later Kelly was at her computer shivering in just a shirt that was not hers. It was like any other rape or cult night only worse. I stayed online till 4am our time, and only managed to get her to grab a blanket.

Next day we met up as normal. 'It's good there are no emails from Trixie' wrote Kelly. 'Now I can get on with my writing. How is your day?' On she went about family things at the weekend, so on and so forth. A crazy way to cope? You be the judge. I have a family member who smiles brightly while coping with more things than most of us ever get to see, because she puts it away somewhere in her mind. We all do things differently.

Much later I was working online when I checked emails from Kelly. There was a mass of them from different alters with odd little rhymes about witches, drugs, trucks, Trixie and Marta, and insults to me which were now a feature. Fancy displays of alternating letters a and s formed pictures like a downward chain of chalices. Someone wrote in large letters 'Just let me go'. Meanwhile Kelly was saying she was fine but dizzy, and I should just go to bed.

Young Daisy was crying so much that she said Trixie was coming over to the house. I tried to warn Kelly but it was cloth-ears time. She was pleased that she had quit the therapy for 3 appointments, and to her knowledge there was no backlash. I had suggested earlier that she write a formal letter about ending the therapy but she found it too threatening. She was naturally feeling a loss at ending their arrangement.

Jingles and Jamborees

I was already aware of some of the other alters who were writing, but the jingles were gearing the system towards jamboree time. If Kelly could not stop someone opening the door to Trixie or Marta, and had only just stopped attending the therapy she had quit, now with apparently connected consequences, I did not see that we would be successful with this yet, unless things in her life changed significantly.

If the cult or whoever could not engage others within the DID system today, there was a big ol' system in place for playing catch-up tomorrow. Ain't life wonderful when there are such guarantees? We used to call it brute force and ignorance. Now we dress it up in psychodynamic or sociological terms. Let's hope they lead to greater understanding then.

Factor This

The main players were Caitlin the host, Kelly who was similar and virtually took over the reins, making some hard decisions.

There was Daisy the 5-year old who was around since Caitlin was small, and Casey a teenager, basically a younger Caitlin.

Nolly was an interpreter/protector who was quaint and formal, though now sometimes violently objecting to me.

A newer background info-person was Informant, who wanted to get pally and talk about Kelly behind her back, as had others.

Recent emails coming in from 'bad side' of the system showed things were not going smoothly there either.

There was an appointment with a psychiatrist who prescribed standard medication. Kelly had a fear of her which I partly sympathised with. I was away for another couple of days, but had not explained to Kelly as I would try to keep up. It was not enough, nothing ever would be, and Kelly kept asking if I was angry.

I received emails from both Nolly and Informant, and it was hard to tell which. One of them explained a puzzling point. Although Kelly did not wish to see Trixie, a message had gone to Trixie asking to speak to her. It seemed Caitlin made a brief return and fixed another appointment, then disappeared again. Trouble and beyond.

Informant seemed generally pleased at how things were going. 'Why can't she just pay you to do it, like you are already doing free?' someone wrote. Could this be what Kelly wanted but I would not do? Nolly said Caitlin would hopefully not get a chance to see Trixie. I asked if Nolly had changed her mind over the suitability of Caitlin making a return. No reply. I was getting curiouser though generally saying and asking less. Things went from Nolly/Informant saying things were not too bad, to a sudden alert 'Kelly is now going to the hospital'. I replied instantly 'Why, what happened?' No reply.

We now had several key factors: Kelly wanting more from me, Kelly stopping therapy with Trixie, Caitlin returning briefly and contacting Trixie, my asking Nolly about Caitlin returning, Informant asking why I could not sort Kelly out, alters who loved cult nights, but Kelly and Daisy getting severely abused at them.

Other factors generally were Kelly's natural vulnerability, her swings between believing she was not mentally sick, to thinking she must be so hospital was the fitting place. Marta had conditioned her that way, and might have sent a triggering message. Add Trixie and the apparently connected punishments for breaching therapy, and that made umpty more.

Plus Kelly had become aware of severe problems regarding therapist Trixie whom I mistrusted. Kelly was experiencing increased cultic abuse which she did not connect with Trixie. I did, though for the moment did not press it, knowing that Kelly had already seen glimpses.

A few too many factors for sorting out just like that? I should cocoa...

Tell Us Why!

So who is right? Me with a human rights approach that something ought to be done to prevent this type of carry-on, or those people who are human though not humane, with such control over others via nefarious methods, and failing that plain vicious bullying and rape. We should be able to do something about those, except that victims do not remember, or they are threatened with the worst things imaginable.

There is something wrong in all of this. Anyone can take my word for it or not. After all, it's a free country. . . This is my call to people involved in these practices to tell us honestly what is done and why, and what can be done about it. Many of us believe in some way that how we are in ourselves, before death or at the point of death, does have significance for us or those around us. And it is something that only we can sort out for ourselves.

We ordinary folks can work some things out and pass information around. It simply needs a framework not entrenched in lifestyle, belief or religion, or any psychological model. I cannot yet make it impossible for the Hicktown crew to continue. I could easily make them findable. The principles are as easily spreadable as magic tricks. Cults are well known for their lying and subterfuge, misdirection and even hi-tech illusions.

Val Valentino (born June 14, 1956) is an American illusionist, and actor, who gained fame by starring in four magic specials exposing magic secrets on the Fox network, using the stage name the Masked Magician. For a span of two years (circa 1997-1998), Valentino performed, unbilled and disguised, as the "Masked Magician" on Fox network television specials called Breaking the Magician's Code: Magic's Biggest Secrets Finally Revealed which exposed long-guarded trade secrets. The Masked Magician was also shown in the UK on the ITV network during the late 1990s and is still occasionally repeated on ITV4. Valentino signed to do the program, promising that he would only reveal the secrets behind old illusions.

However, when the programs aired, many newer illusions were also revealed. This sparked controversy, as many magicians feared that their illusions were now worthless. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_Valentino (Note: You can see some of these tricks on YouTube)

Send for Bodie and Doyle

man with head in sand

Image from website www.chrismadden.co.uk

What is the best way to pre-empt these pre-empters? It is time to get real, get our heads out from the sand, and stop alienating people with different experiences or the people who support them, whether they get all of it right, or they just got awful misled. 'They' think that we won't agree enough even to listen or to look, and in that way they hope to pre-empt our realisation of the reality.

Rather like what was done with Kelly and others, who could not be expected to see, although deep down they knew. Some who caught a glimmer found it all too hard, adding to the high suicide statistics of young women in crazy Hicktown. If these things were happening to someone you know, what would your reaction be? Would you be in with a chance of stepping in, so that they can step out? Just like that, Tommy Cooper-style.

Principles which can be used to control others can also be used to undo control

Could any of us get entangled?

The reader must choose where to draw the boundary on anything

It is about choice and boundaries: Don't let other people erode them -

Or Con you into thinking they are different from what you feel is right

Thank you for reading

Beam me up Scotty

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' Edmund Burke


guardian angel

You can search on Google for images, and eBay is another good source. There are inexpensive agate or jasper crosses, Celtic or Christian crosses, guardian angels, Orthodox crosses, icons of many different figures. We have put together a few images and prayers to help in times of need at Measures and Countermeasures. You can also find images or articles that suit you and your situation best.


Cult Personalities, Mind as a Garden


Useful Links - Use Your Judgement

A book may include only a couple of paragraphs of relevance to you, but can be well worth it. A little moral support from one other person goes a long way to change the dynamics of an individual's life. Groups are strange creatures, and can be turned around for better rather than for worse. Perhaps it needs just one person to give moral support, for someone else to feel able to speak out or to stand for or against something.

If you know someone who is dissociative, or you think they could be a survivor of cult ritual abuse, follow your instincts and offer support where you can. Things are not always what they seem but they could be. You don't need to be an expert to make a difference, but you don't have to try. Don't put yourself at risk from over-involvement.

If you are not sure, or are concerned about your own situation, whether you are a survivor of abuse, of cult ritual abuse, or think you may be involved in what other people call a cult in a broad sense, give yourself time to work out what is important. Find out what you can. Get support if you can. One organisation or person may be able to help over one small aspect that makes a big difference, even if it is just by being there.

We are not listing book references, but a search on Amazon or Google will help you to find what you are looking for.

You may like to check out the following

Make up your own mind on what you think, or find most relevant

Youtube Series - Pseudoscience in Psychotherapy Hurts People

Introduction - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8A14E0J47Q&feature=related








Justice for Carol



Dramatis Personae - an indexed history of child protection & family justice


Youtube Channel Cynthialysis


If we use labels to describe people, they should be helpful for those people, rather than counter-productive. People should be free to make up their mind, and to CHANGE their mind - It is theirs! The fact that experts are so varied in their views means the rest of us are free to Pick-and-Mix what we know suits us best, and to reject what does not feel right. Do some therapists seem like cult-leaders, strongly motivated by a belief system? Website: http://cultwise.blogspot.com

Groups, Cults, Indoctrination, Exiting


Direct link to 'Doc Matrix' Cults & Groups

Get Good Help or None At All!

Seeking Help for Yourself or for Someone Else

Includes TANSAL Human Rights pages

Problems in Context on Facebook

A psycho-social approach

Middlegroundable Channel on Youtube

Thank you for listening and Good Luck!










waddle dee

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